Comments on: Google converters: garden path or path to glory? http://wp-fun.co.uk/2009/01/13/google-converters-garden-path-or-path-to-glory/ Just another WordPress weblog Tue, 16 Mar 2010 13:31:15 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Andrew Rickmann http://wp-fun.co.uk/2009/01/13/google-converters-garden-path-or-path-to-glory/comment-page-1/#comment-1285 Andrew Rickmann Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:26:22 +0000 http://www.wp-fun.co.uk/?p=1090#comment-1285 I must admit that I am more include to start with a blank sheet of xml but I will investigate Atom and AtomPub further to see if it is easier to do it that way. What is in my mind is that the extensions will mean it is no longer compatible with existing importers, so I wonder how beneficial it would really be. Plugins would still need to be built. I must admit that I am more include to start with a blank sheet of xml but I will investigate Atom and AtomPub further to see if it is easier to do it that way. What is in my mind is that the extensions will mean it is no longer compatible with existing importers, so I wonder how beneficial it would really be. Plugins would still need to be built.

]]> By: Andrew Rickmann http://wp-fun.co.uk/2009/01/13/google-converters-garden-path-or-path-to-glory/comment-page-1/#comment-1284 Andrew Rickmann Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:07:53 +0000 http://www.wp-fun.co.uk/?p=1090#comment-1284 While I can see the benefits I am going to avoid feature creep. My key goal is to do something very very simple that just works for most ordinary users. If someone wants to write a forum plugin that pulls the data from the format then that is great, but I won't be addressing anything specific for forums. While I can see the benefits I am going to avoid feature creep. My key goal is to do something very very simple that just works for most ordinary users. If someone wants to write a forum plugin that pulls the data from the format then that is great, but I won't be addressing anything specific for forums.

]]> By: Ryan http://wp-fun.co.uk/2009/01/13/google-converters-garden-path-or-path-to-glory/comment-page-1/#comment-1283 Ryan Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:40:44 +0000 http://www.wp-fun.co.uk/?p=1090#comment-1283 Great idea. Setting up a system which is compatible with forums as well would be good. So you could convert your blog posts with comments to forum topics with replies and vice versa. In fact forums need a universal system more so than blogs IMO.<br><br>Could the existing WordPress system be adapted for this? Couldn't you just make a Habari plugin which does the same thing as the built in WordPress one? Great idea. Setting up a system which is compatible with forums as well would be good. So you could convert your blog posts with comments to forum topics with replies and vice versa. In fact forums need a universal system more so than blogs IMO.

Could the existing WordPress system be adapted for this? Couldn't you just make a Habari plugin which does the same thing as the built in WordPress one?

]]> By: michaeltwofish http://wp-fun.co.uk/2009/01/13/google-converters-garden-path-or-path-to-glory/comment-page-1/#comment-1282 michaeltwofish Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:29:04 +0000 http://www.wp-fun.co.uk/?p=1090#comment-1282 There may also be problems maintaining timestamps, because an AtomPub server can choose to change or ignore things like the client-supplied time for 'updated'. There may also be problems maintaining timestamps, because an AtomPub server can choose to change or ignore things like the client-supplied time for 'updated'.

]]> By: michaeltwofish http://wp-fun.co.uk/2009/01/13/google-converters-garden-path-or-path-to-glory/comment-page-1/#comment-1281 michaeltwofish Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:15:02 +0000 http://www.wp-fun.co.uk/?p=1090#comment-1281 No, because Atom, by default, doesn't encode everything that can be expressed in each blogging platform. Owen makes a good example, Habari's metadata for posts and comments. But it does encode information about authors and content and categories (which Habari uses as tags) and much more. In theory, you could use an AtomPub client to pull down all your posts from your old blog (export) and simply POST them to your new blog (import). I don't know if there are clients that support that at the moment, however. (Aside, PUT is for editing, POST is for creating.) No, because Atom, by default, doesn't encode everything that can be expressed in each blogging platform. Owen makes a good example, Habari's metadata for posts and comments. But it does encode information about authors and content and categories (which Habari uses as tags) and much more. In theory, you could use an AtomPub client to pull down all your posts from your old blog (export) and simply POST them to your new blog (import). I don't know if there are clients that support that at the moment, however. (Aside, PUT is for editing, POST is for creating.)

]]> By: Andrew Rickmann http://wp-fun.co.uk/2009/01/13/google-converters-garden-path-or-path-to-glory/comment-page-1/#comment-1280 Andrew Rickmann Wed, 14 Jan 2009 23:44:03 +0000 http://www.wp-fun.co.uk/?p=1090#comment-1280 Is there a reason why Atom isn't already used as a default format? If you can get information from a blog and put that information into another then isn't the work already done? Isn't that the universal format? Is there a reason why Atom isn't already used as a default format? If you can get information from a blog and put that information into another then isn't the work already done? Isn't that the universal format?

]]> By: ringmaster http://wp-fun.co.uk/2009/01/13/google-converters-garden-path-or-path-to-glory/comment-page-1/#comment-1279 ringmaster Wed, 14 Jan 2009 20:33:24 +0000 http://www.wp-fun.co.uk/?p=1090#comment-1279 I also don't understand WXR extending RSS. Extending Atom makes more sense because it's transactional -- if you HTTP GET an Atom document, make changes to it and then POST it back to the same URL (with the proper credentials) it should cause the system to update with those changes. That's a nice feature. It uses actual HTTP verbs. Imagine an export format that also allowed for that, but could be used for author data and other site metadata. That's actually one thing that we were thinking of doing with Habari early on; building the admin as an Atom front-end that worked transactionally with any number of compatible back-ends.<br><br>Also a benefit of using an existing format is that there are a lot of people working on the standard, and extending it is more trivial than building something from scratch. Take a look at the work that went into the Atom spec to get an idea of what it takes to build something that will work just that well.<br><br>Simple would be nice, although in that case I'd emphasize the need to have someplace to collaborate on how extensions to that simple baseline work. You definitely don't want it to be difficult for developers from any platform to join the effort and exchange ideas. I also don't understand WXR extending RSS. Extending Atom makes more sense because it's transactional — if you HTTP GET an Atom document, make changes to it and then POST it back to the same URL (with the proper credentials) it should cause the system to update with those changes. That's a nice feature. It uses actual HTTP verbs. Imagine an export format that also allowed for that, but could be used for author data and other site metadata. That's actually one thing that we were thinking of doing with Habari early on; building the admin as an Atom front-end that worked transactionally with any number of compatible back-ends.

Also a benefit of using an existing format is that there are a lot of people working on the standard, and extending it is more trivial than building something from scratch. Take a look at the work that went into the Atom spec to get an idea of what it takes to build something that will work just that well.

Simple would be nice, although in that case I'd emphasize the need to have someplace to collaborate on how extensions to that simple baseline work. You definitely don't want it to be difficult for developers from any platform to join the effort and exchange ideas.

]]> By: Andrew Rickmann http://wp-fun.co.uk/2009/01/13/google-converters-garden-path-or-path-to-glory/comment-page-1/#comment-1278 Andrew Rickmann Wed, 14 Jan 2009 13:27:28 +0000 http://www.wp-fun.co.uk/?p=1090#comment-1278 I will take a look at it. My main requirement is that it just works and is really simple for normal people to understand. I don't really know anything about AtomPub as I have never had cause to use it. I will take a look at it. My main requirement is that it just works and is really simple for normal people to understand. I don't really know anything about AtomPub as I have never had cause to use it.

]]> By: Andrew Rickmann http://wp-fun.co.uk/2009/01/13/google-converters-garden-path-or-path-to-glory/comment-page-1/#comment-1277 Andrew Rickmann Wed, 14 Jan 2009 13:21:47 +0000 http://www.wp-fun.co.uk/?p=1090#comment-1277 Thanks Owen. There is much to think about there. My first thought was that it should just use plain XML. I never really understood why WXR should extend RSS instead of just being an XML file with the necessary data in it.<br><br>I think it is very possible to make it very complicated and most of all I want to keep it simple and achieve the basics. If it really needs extending beyond that it can be.<br><br>As for licensing, I plan to just let anyone do whatever they want with it. Thanks Owen. There is much to think about there. My first thought was that it should just use plain XML. I never really understood why WXR should extend RSS instead of just being an XML file with the necessary data in it.

I think it is very possible to make it very complicated and most of all I want to keep it simple and achieve the basics. If it really needs extending beyond that it can be.

As for licensing, I plan to just let anyone do whatever they want with it.

]]> By: Heiner http://wp-fun.co.uk/2009/01/13/google-converters-garden-path-or-path-to-glory/comment-page-1/#comment-1276 Heiner Wed, 14 Jan 2009 06:26:25 +0000 http://www.wp-fun.co.uk/?p=1090#comment-1276 Just a little side note, the garden path evidently <b>is</b> the path to glory ;-) Just a little side note, the garden path evidently is the path to glory ;-)

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