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	<title>Comments on: Careful, I&#8217;m licensed to thrill</title>
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	<link>http://wp-fun.co.uk/2008/12/14/careful-im-licensed-to-thrill/</link>
	<description>Just another WordPress weblog</description>
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		<title>By: Premium WordPress Themes and the GPL Discussions &#8212; WP-Premiums</title>
		<link>http://wp-fun.co.uk/2008/12/14/careful-im-licensed-to-thrill/comment-page-1/#comment-1159</link>
		<dc:creator>Premium WordPress Themes and the GPL Discussions &#8212; WP-Premiums</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2009 17:13:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wp-fun.co.uk/?p=921#comment-1159</guid>
		<description>[...] Fun with WordPress: Careful, I</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Fun with WordPress: Careful, I</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Rickmann</title>
		<link>http://wp-fun.co.uk/2008/12/14/careful-im-licensed-to-thrill/comment-page-1/#comment-1158</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Rickmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 16:37:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wp-fun.co.uk/?p=921#comment-1158</guid>
		<description>It seems to me that the GPL is based on ideals and that trust is one of those. It is unfortunate that it is difficult to trust people sometimes but I think it helps that in the WordPress community the individuals are known. There are few people who would pay you for something and then knowingly undermine the work you have put in, whereas, if you were just one person in a big company they wouldn&#039;t think twice about it.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You are right as well that if someone has paid for something they are unlikely to want to then go and give that away for free.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I think trust should work well for you and the community as a whole. At least I hope it does.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me that the GPL is based on ideals and that trust is one of those. It is unfortunate that it is difficult to trust people sometimes but I think it helps that in the WordPress community the individuals are known. There are few people who would pay you for something and then knowingly undermine the work you have put in, whereas, if you were just one person in a big company they wouldn&#39;t think twice about it.</p>
<p>You are right as well that if someone has paid for something they are unlikely to want to then go and give that away for free.</p>
<p>I think trust should work well for you and the community as a whole. At least I hope it does.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin Tadlock</title>
		<link>http://wp-fun.co.uk/2008/12/14/careful-im-licensed-to-thrill/comment-page-1/#comment-1157</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Tadlock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 16:28:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wp-fun.co.uk/?p=921#comment-1157</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m actually experimenting a bit with the &quot;trust&quot; system.  I recently released a GPL-licensed plugin that extends one of my themes to members of my theme club.  Many of them understand the implications of this (others have no clue about licensing), but since they&#039;ve paid money for this kind of access, they&#039;re not off giving it away for free.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Of course, since it is GPL, they can pretty much do whatever they want with it, even distribute it to non-club members.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This extension isn&#039;t something they&#039;re entitled to as a club member, but I thought I&#039;d give it a try to see where it leads.  I might even do something like give club members access to things months in advance before publicly releasing them.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;No matter how it works out, I&#039;m &lt;em&gt;trying&lt;/em&gt; to avoid the whole issue altogether by just releasing everything under the GPL and charging for support services, which has been working out fairly well at this point in terms of business. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;My interpretation of the GPL and themes is that CSS and images can be licensed separately.  However, I&#039;d rather look at business models that don&#039;t potentially put my business at risk, which is why every new theme I release will be licensed with the GPL.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;m actually experimenting a bit with the &#8220;trust&#8221; system.  I recently released a GPL-licensed plugin that extends one of my themes to members of my theme club.  Many of them understand the implications of this (others have no clue about licensing), but since they&#39;ve paid money for this kind of access, they&#39;re not off giving it away for free.</p>
<p>Of course, since it is GPL, they can pretty much do whatever they want with it, even distribute it to non-club members.</p>
<p>This extension isn&#39;t something they&#39;re entitled to as a club member, but I thought I&#39;d give it a try to see where it leads.  I might even do something like give club members access to things months in advance before publicly releasing them.</p>
<p>No matter how it works out, I&#39;m <em>trying</em> to avoid the whole issue altogether by just releasing everything under the GPL and charging for support services, which has been working out fairly well at this point in terms of business. </p>
<p>My interpretation of the GPL and themes is that CSS and images can be licensed separately.  However, I&#39;d rather look at business models that don&#39;t potentially put my business at risk, which is why every new theme I release will be licensed with the GPL.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Rickmann</title>
		<link>http://wp-fun.co.uk/2008/12/14/careful-im-licensed-to-thrill/comment-page-1/#comment-1156</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Rickmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 14:48:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wp-fun.co.uk/?p=921#comment-1156</guid>
		<description>I think the overall problem is that until a court makes a ruling this is really all just speculation, albeit very informed speculation on the part of the experts. Perhaps though that very vagueness is all that is required for people to be cautious enough not to go off reselling themes. It may be self-enforcing by the very fact that no one quite knows what would happen if someone did take it to court.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the overall problem is that until a court makes a ruling this is really all just speculation, albeit very informed speculation on the part of the experts. Perhaps though that very vagueness is all that is required for people to be cautious enough not to go off reselling themes. It may be self-enforcing by the very fact that no one quite knows what would happen if someone did take it to court.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Rickmann</title>
		<link>http://wp-fun.co.uk/2008/12/14/careful-im-licensed-to-thrill/comment-page-1/#comment-1155</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Rickmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 14:45:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wp-fun.co.uk/?p=921#comment-1155</guid>
		<description>I think the complexity of the task depends on how complex you want to make it. The theme I run on this blog effectively replaces all the WordPress functions with copies of its own; of course it doesn&#039;t read in the template files, they still run as they did before, but I can imagine it wouldn&#039;t be that hard to use, say Blogger&#039;s template tags instead, or some other text based way of showing that you want a title in place x and a post in place y. I think the drupal idea is very interesting. I do think there is some way to go yet before any system has the best theme system it can get.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Of course it is worth stating that the only reason this is an issue is because there is a repository that requires themes to be GPL to be in it. Beyond this licensing is only really an issue when you need to enforce it.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And yes, I did expect you to say that :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the complexity of the task depends on how complex you want to make it. The theme I run on this blog effectively replaces all the WordPress functions with copies of its own; of course it doesn&#39;t read in the template files, they still run as they did before, but I can imagine it wouldn&#39;t be that hard to use, say Blogger&#39;s template tags instead, or some other text based way of showing that you want a title in place x and a post in place y. I think the drupal idea is very interesting. I do think there is some way to go yet before any system has the best theme system it can get.</p>
<p>Of course it is worth stating that the only reason this is an issue is because there is a repository that requires themes to be GPL to be in it. Beyond this licensing is only really an issue when you need to enforce it.</p>
<p>And yes, I did expect you to say that :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://wp-fun.co.uk/2008/12/14/careful-im-licensed-to-thrill/comment-page-1/#comment-1154</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 12:14:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wp-fun.co.uk/?p=921#comment-1154</guid>
		<description>I am no expert myself. However I have consulted with a copyright/software license expert on this matter and they were quite insistent that there is no requirement for WordPress themes to be licensed as GPL.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am no expert myself. However I have consulted with a copyright/software license expert on this matter and they were quite insistent that there is no requirement for WordPress themes to be licensed as GPL.</p>
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		<title>By: ringmaster</title>
		<link>http://wp-fun.co.uk/2008/12/14/careful-im-licensed-to-thrill/comment-page-1/#comment-1153</link>
		<dc:creator>ringmaster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 08:25:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wp-fun.co.uk/?p=921#comment-1153</guid>
		<description>Your idea to remove the code bits from the HTML files is intriguing, although thinking some more about it, I wonder if even that is possible.  I&#039;ve been playing a bit with different style theme construction for Habari lately that leads me to think that it would be a lot harder than it sounds.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;WordPress theme construction is such that you have a specific file for a specific type of request.  For example, you may have a template file that represents the response to give when requesting a single post: single.php.  In Habari, this file is named something else, but it exists (if you don&#039;t look any deeper).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;To give a counter-example, in Drupal you produce a single page.tpl.php wrapper template, which would be like a WordPress template with the header and footer includes built in, but in place of the content area you simply (to simplify) output the &quot;$content&quot; variable.  When you make requests for specific types of things, Drupal fills in that content variable with the type of thing your requested based on templates specific to the things you request.  So if you request a post (which in Drupal is a &quot;node&quot; of type &quot;blog&quot;) it gets the node.tpl.php template file (or the node-blog.tpl.php file if that exists), uses it to build that node&#039;s output, then inserts it in the page.tpl.php&#039;s content spot.  It does this if there is one post or many posts, using the same two templates, just repeating the one in a loop if there are multiple posts to display.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As you can see, Drupal&#039;s is radically different from WordPress&#039; template model.  Interestingly, with not too much additional work - and soon to be much less, I think - Habari can work this way too.  (But you were expecting me to say that, weren&#039;t you?)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;My question:  Is there another blog package that is sufficiently the same in its theme structure but not also GPL-licensed that you could reasonably say that your output is platform-neutral, not WordPress-specific, thus able to use a non-GPL license?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;m not sure of the answer, but it&#039;s an interesting intellectual puzzle.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Obviously, I&#039;m on the side of creating and distributing themes for Habari under the ASL.  Since the ASL is GPL-compatible, that means that someone (or you) can take the code you produce for Habari and make a WordPress or Drupal theme out of it.  And since Habari itself is ASL, you can create a theme under any license you want, and do whatever you want with it, including charging for commercial/premium themes and restricting their redistribution or freely releasing your own theme under an appropriate OSI-approved license.  It&#039;s a win for themers, it&#039;s a win for users, it&#039;s a win for free software.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your idea to remove the code bits from the HTML files is intriguing, although thinking some more about it, I wonder if even that is possible.  I&#39;ve been playing a bit with different style theme construction for Habari lately that leads me to think that it would be a lot harder than it sounds.</p>
<p>WordPress theme construction is such that you have a specific file for a specific type of request.  For example, you may have a template file that represents the response to give when requesting a single post: single.php.  In Habari, this file is named something else, but it exists (if you don&#39;t look any deeper).</p>
<p>To give a counter-example, in Drupal you produce a single page.tpl.php wrapper template, which would be like a WordPress template with the header and footer includes built in, but in place of the content area you simply (to simplify) output the &#8220;$content&#8221; variable.  When you make requests for specific types of things, Drupal fills in that content variable with the type of thing your requested based on templates specific to the things you request.  So if you request a post (which in Drupal is a &#8220;node&#8221; of type &#8220;blog&#8221;) it gets the node.tpl.php template file (or the node-blog.tpl.php file if that exists), uses it to build that node&#39;s output, then inserts it in the page.tpl.php&#39;s content spot.  It does this if there is one post or many posts, using the same two templates, just repeating the one in a loop if there are multiple posts to display.</p>
<p>As you can see, Drupal&#39;s is radically different from WordPress&#39; template model.  Interestingly, with not too much additional work &#8211; and soon to be much less, I think &#8211; Habari can work this way too.  (But you were expecting me to say that, weren&#39;t you?)</p>
<p>My question:  Is there another blog package that is sufficiently the same in its theme structure but not also GPL-licensed that you could reasonably say that your output is platform-neutral, not WordPress-specific, thus able to use a non-GPL license?</p>
<p>I&#39;m not sure of the answer, but it&#39;s an interesting intellectual puzzle.</p>
<p>Obviously, I&#39;m on the side of creating and distributing themes for Habari under the ASL.  Since the ASL is GPL-compatible, that means that someone (or you) can take the code you produce for Habari and make a WordPress or Drupal theme out of it.  And since Habari itself is ASL, you can create a theme under any license you want, and do whatever you want with it, including charging for commercial/premium themes and restricting their redistribution or freely releasing your own theme under an appropriate OSI-approved license.  It&#39;s a win for themers, it&#39;s a win for users, it&#39;s a win for free software.</p>
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